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Steve Stanfill

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Ok folks, I'm looking for recommendations on my next rifle purchase.  I want an AR-15 type weapon, capable of safely firing 5.56 and .223.  I don't want something that James Bond's scientists invented, just something off the shelf.  I eventually want to put a set of optics on it for increased accuracy.

Suggestions?
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Charles R. Petrach

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I can get you a name and number of a guy who will build what you want, or turners have several ar on sale right now.
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Keith Brownmiller

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While not an expert by any means, you might consider the S&W M&P 15 which you can get in an optic ready format which currently has a $100 rebate until the end of the year. Is chambered for the 5.56mm cartridge but will also shoot the 223 cartridge.

In most cases I have researched they are not interchangeable cartridges. A weapon chambered in 5.56mm can shoot both but not vice versa.

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AZ1 Leo Shults, AIMD 1983

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The Gunny's S&W is a good choice, so is my Bushmaster (5.56/.223).  Pricing is about the same.  Bushmaster has a rebate too.

My son's Diamondback 300 BLK is an AR-15 platform, just different barrel.  He's had problems with ammo feeding.  It was jamming after every round.  Their customer support wanted him to pay shipping for them to look at it.  He wound up stripping the lower receiver, removing burs and lubing to get it to feed better, but it still jams every 20 to 30 rounds.
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Steve Stanfill

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keith Brownmiller
While not an expert by any means, you might consider the S&W M&P 15 which you can get in an optic ready format which currently has a $100 rebate until the end of the year. Is chambered for the 5.56mm cartridge but will also shoot the 223 cartridge. In most cases I have researched they are not interchangeable cartridges. A weapon chambered in 5.56mm can shoot both but not vice versa.

Gunny, I have been looking at the M&P15s.  I really like them.  I hate the fact that they don't have a detachable magazine.  I've been thinking about buying a standard one with a 10 round mag in Nevada (since I'm a part-time resident), but I don't know if I use it a California Range, someone might call the cops on me about it.  I wished the MP15s were a little cheaper though.  Competitors have them a bit cheaper.
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AZ1 Leo Shults, AIMD 1983

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From the web .223 vs 5.56

".223 Remington and 5.56×45 Pressure Measurements

One of the problems with comparing these two cartridges is that they utilize different methods of measuring pressure. SAAMI (Sporting Arms and Ammunition Manufacturers’ Institute) measures the .223 pressure at the center of the casing, whereas the NATO standard measures the pressure at the throat (or leade) of the chamber. To rectify the two different methods, several have undertaken experiments with their own standardized recording method to compare “apples to apples.” One such thorough study was carried out and recorded in detail by Andrew Tuohy posted via Lucky Gunner Labs (click here to read the full article). Tuohy evaluated various .223 and 5.56 ammo fired through rifles chambered for .223 Remington and 5.56x45mm.

His, and the research of others, confirms that, generally, shooting .223 through a 5.56 chamber results in lower pressure, but still functions (safely). Firing 5.56 through a .223 chamber, however, results in somewhat higher pressures. Although the differences aren’t massive (~5% in the previously referenced study), extensive firing of 5.56 through a .223 chamber could lead to over-pressure malfunctions, such as popped primers or blown cartridge case heads and other firearm malfunctions.

.223 Remington and 5.56×45 Chamber Differences

The most important difference between .223 and 5.56 chambers is the length of the throat (or leade) for each chamber. More specifically, the leade is located at the mouth of the barrel before the rifling occurs. Comparing the NATO and SAAMI regulations, the leade for 5.56 chambers is nearly twice as long as that of a .223 chamber (.162in to .085in, respectively). If a 5.56 round contacts the barrel rifling too early, it can cause pressure spikes (leading to malfunction, and potentially damage) in the chamber. This explains why it is safe to fire .223 through a 5.56 chamber, but not recommended to fire 5.56 through a .223 chamber."

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Steve Stanfill

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Reply with quote  #7 
Gunny and Leo, I have seen the same data, which is why I'm leaning towards the 5.56, so I can safely fire the cheaper .223. 

Charlie, Turner's Outdoorsman has the Del-Ton DT Sport 5.56 WITH the laser sight for $599.98.  I might have to go over there this weekend and look at it  [smile]  It is in the budget range and has what I want on it.
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Keith Brownmiller

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My M&P 15 optic ready that I bought in the PX does have a detachable magazine. What California has done is "modify" the magazine release button, where you can't push the magazine release button. You can release the magazine by pressing the magazine release with a pointed object like a rifle cartridge. There is also a magnetic type "button" that you can put over the magazine release and then it functions normally.

I got my rifle with refund for roughly $620 and there was no tax on the purchase. The $100 rebate from S&W is good until the end of the year.

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Steve Stanfill

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Reply with quote  #9 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keith Brownmiller
My M&P 15 optic ready that I bought in the PX does have a detachable magazine. What California has done is "modify" the magazine release button, where you can't push the magazine release button. You can release the magazine by pressing the magazine release with a pointed object like a rifle cartridge. There is also a magnetic type "button" that you can put over the magazine release and then it functions normally. I got my rifle with refund for roughly $620 and there was no tax on the purchase. The $100 rebate from S&W is good until the end of the year.


Our NEX and PX do not have weapons.  I can walk into the Nellis AFB BX and walk out with a Street Sweeper, or a Tac Shotgun with a pistol grip.  I guess I need to spend some time at the gun store and look at all of the different rifles and the "California Chicken Chit" mods.  I'm heading to Vegas in January so I will take a look at the place down the road from me and see the differences in mods and prices.

You got yours at 29 Palms PX? 
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